samira moussa
is the recent u.s plane crash in libya a
sign that western forces intervening
there will only create another
catastrophe that was iraq okay and i
should say also we're completely live
here on bbc3 tonight and here's the very
latest line on libya the libyan air
force no longer exists as a fighting
force that is according to the commander
of british aircraft operating over libya
the libyan air force no longer exists as
a fighting force let's go to uh
george galloway first of all well these
kind of hubistic uh boostings are almost
uh guaranteed to
uh backfire um if uh another american
plane
comes down
we'll know that that's not quite as true
as the military spokesman today
said even worse after the american plane
came down and the villagers near
benghazi who came out to rescue the
american pilots six of them were shot
and once had his arm amputated by the
american commandos
who didn't understand their
intentions
which just goes to show the law of
unintended consequences
no military plan survives first contact
with the enemy and this one won't either
it's going nowhere it's costing us three
million pounds a day on the day that the
tory chancellor laid waste to hundreds
of thousands of british jobs
butchered more british public services
it turns out we've got three million a
day to spend throwing tomahawk cruise
missiles a million dollars a time
a north african country and richard said
it's the first time we've been in
military action since iraq
that long huh
but actually we've been in military
action every day since iraq it's called
afghanistan we're already
uh
a new uh theater of war but you
mentioned the six people that were shot
it is worth saying that the father of
the boy who may have to have his leg
amputated has said that he has forgiven
the americans
because
better him than me i wouldn't forgive
them with a shot my son's leg off would
you nobody look it's an important point
he wants them there
he thinks they're doing an important job
we think it's necessary he's probably
not got much of a choice uh over that
but his son's leg was shot off
six other people were shot i'm just
making the point
that when you're throwing high
explosives around the place don't
pretend that there's anything forensic
about it that there's anything targeted
about it i've been in enough medical
awards where the victims of surgical
precision bombing have been taken per
chance to die to know that all this
propagandistic guff
about military weaponry is just one of
the big lies
century
we shouldn't be there at all not at all
we are the colonial power that used to
govern in these places well if you are
the last people in the world who should
be invading and uh
and bombing other people it's an
enormous international coalition
well name names well well let me just
say in a moment an audience and akin to
come in and we will
just be absolutely clear you would have
left the people of benghazi to their
fate the tanks were on the outskirts of
benghazi gaddafi had said he would go
house to house door to door and show
these people no mercy and you would have
left them to die don't give me that the
same didn't give you that
people that are bombing for human rights
in libya are killing people in pakistan
and afghanistan on a daily basis and
you've just you just brought into your
vast coalition saudi arabia the saudi
arabian air force bombing for human
rights when it's killing its own
demonstrators and has just invaded
bahrain to kill
some people can be killed other people
have to be saved i wonder what the
difference is it's got three letters it
begins with o it ends in l and the
middle letter is i
[Applause]
so therefore
the answer is yes you would have left
the people of benghazi to their fate i
wouldn't have armed qaddafi in the first
place when i was saying
when i was telling you
when i was telling the bbc that gaddafi
was the same criminal today as he was
last year and 10 years before the bbc
was singing off the same hymn sheet as
tony blair and the labour government
he's a different place
he wouldn't have his tanks if we hadn't
sold them to him he wouldn't have the
training but give him special forces
given that that happened you have to
accept that happened and there we had an
urgent situation where the tanks were on
the outskirts of the town yeah
1 600 palestinians were killed to death
from the sky by israel and you never
asked for a no-fly zone once and you
never will ask for another
hello there good evening yeah um i
understand uh judge's points about the
disparity in terms of foreign policy
with uh uh
mugabe israel saudi arabia but i'd like
him to actually answer the question and
what would you do what what what should
be done should they should no forces
have gone in or should forces have gone
in from another country or some other
country but what would have done
arabs have a right to be there egypt has
a right to be asked
yeah i called on them uh to open their
borders right at the start of this
revolution i'm a supporter of the libyan
revolution before david cameron
supported it the difference is i'm a
supporter of all the arab revolutions he
definitely isn't
good
is less than two percent of the world's
loyal suppliers she obviously doesn't
know the price of oil if she can what
to only to have any idea what the value
of two percent
is and it's not true to say that we
would only send forces to help places
that have oil because you just need to
make it somewhere like sierra leone we
made a huge difference before we get
quick audience before we get started
about the security council the most
populous countries in the world
did not vote for this resolution
india china
russia
they gave it
approval germany turkey china russia
and india are all against them
they have all been denouncing it in the
days that followed because they did not
believe that they were abstaining on
something that involved the huddling of
hundreds
hundreds of cruise missiles a million
dollars at times
actually the russian president and uh
prime minister actually are odds with
each other so i haven't completely
denounced it let's just go to the
audience gentlemen in the middle there
with the black hair hello
how we as a country and nation have
denounced to
have encouraged these dictators and
brought them up we have perhaps sold
them weapons we have perhaps intervened
in their countries in the past and yet
in the same breath they say that we
should not intervene simply because it
is perhaps too expensive or perhaps we
have no role in this surely we should be
given the chance in fact we have the
obligation to at least make to make
right what we have made wrong
we're still propping up the dictators
saudi arabia is propped up by us or it
would fall down now
we've heard
the arab league the arab league is a
collection of dictatorships who are
mostly involved in killing their own
democracy
you want us to say it's a good idea
because the arab league's in favor of it
i believe
there's not a single democratic
government in the entire arab league but
look at it and half of them are killing
the lord
george across north africa and the
middle east uh if
the rest of the world uh hadn't if that
coalition had not intervened in libya
and qadhafi have been allowed to
completely suppress and kill those
rebels what message would that have sent
to other dictators that's the main thing
we are sending to all the other
dictatorships you can kill your people
if you like no we don't know yes we are
what did we say against saudi arabia
killing its own people what do we say
about saudi arabia invading bahrain last
friday in order to kill the people of
bahrain nothing at all let's go to the
audience let's go the audience right uh
blue blazer what is the difference
between the situation in libya uh and
the situation that was in china in the
tian men's square protest and so also
the guangzhou democratization
movement in korea in 1980 uh they both
started off as a civilized movement
which ended in uh bloody massacre or let
me add another one
in this country in northern ireland
when british troops shot dead 14
innocent
protesters none of whom was carrying a
weapon and we then covered it up for 40
years and then finally almost half a
century later david cameron apologized
would we have support
i'm sorry
foreign troops intervening in northern
ireland to protect
bloody sunday but
you were involved in that you were
involved in books six tours i did in
northern ireland to protect the people
i lost soldiers in northern ireland yes
bloody sunday was a mistake i entirely
agree with it i sent look it was a guy
speak it was a crime
it took too long
i knew at the time i was on the streets
that it was a crime i accept that i
really reject the comparisons between
rwanda and balkans what happened in the
balkans where the presence of genocidal
maniacs gaddafi is many things but he's
not a genocidal maniac
what's happening in the arab world are
revolutions not genocidal maniacs the
people who took up arms have made the
conscious choice to sacrifice their
lives or put their lives at risk to
observe dictatorships but if if when
qaddafi said that he would go
door-to-door house to house and show no
mercy to the people of benghazi all
right not technically a genocide but not
that different to a genesis
look you keep saying that as a matter of
fact the voice of america that
well-known gaddafi radio station
has published the text of what gaddafi
said and it was not what you're saying
it was in any case it was hot air the
libyan regime is a ramshackle
disorganized shambles as
my two new friends the experts from the
middle east uh will uh be able to
testify but
it's a pretty deadly shambles
yes indeed but the gaddafi had no means
to go house to house and kill a million
people and neither in fact according to
the voice of america did he say so but
the young man's made the point
this is an armed uprising
an armed uprising by the way that
miraculously got its hand on airplanes
and and tanks
some revolutionaries i wonder where they
got them from you'll say they rose up
and they're contesting with gaddafi for
state power in libya so i'm with them
i'm i want gaddafi out
whatever happens
but it's not the same thing as being on
the hills above sarajevo and raining
down death and destruction it's an
entirely
innocent individual when you say it's
hot air george gallagher you think
he would have shown him mercy
he doesn't have the means to conquer
benghazi this war
this war by the way in which we've seen
surprisingly few pictures
i wonder why
is actually being fought between very
small groups of people on each side
let's not paint this
as if this was uh the battle of kursk
this is a ramshackle
primitive society in which small groups
of people are fighting each other for
state power we're moving on george
galloway thank you let's uh